In August 2022, I wrote a blog strongly questioning an article saying that high sensitivity (HS) can “overlap” with vulnerable narcissism (as opposed to the grandiose form). Scott Barry Kaufman wrote a good blog on this too. Vulnerable narcissists are a relatively new idea, a category of narcissists born from the observation that they are highly focused on themselves—”am I good enough?” and all that, to the point that they fail to consider what others are feeling. It can make anyone seem selfish or callous if their only thought seems to be, “What do you think? How am I doing?” Or, “Wow, congratulations—I wish I were that good.”
While there was some truth to the possibility that HSPs could also sometimes have these tendencies, the article implied a basic similarity between HS and narcissism in its use of the term “overlap” (referring to the fact that on a questionnaire, both HSPs and vulnerable narcissists will be somewhat likely to say yes to a few particular items, such as “I worry that I am not good enough.”). This idea of an overlap ignores where there is no overlap in basic aspects–for example the strong empathy characteristic of HSPs and the lack of it in all varieties of narcissism.
Recently Scientific American covered the research on narcissism, both the grandiose and new vulnerable type (not mentioning HSPs of course). It was then that I realized there is a far better way to separate normal HS from vulnerable narcissism, based on the fundamental nature of narcissism that none of the researchers are seeing.
I believe narcissism is basically a problem of being obsessed by ranking. You will immediately get this, I think, if you understand ranking and linking from reading any of the places I have discussed it (for example, my book The Undervalued Self or my first Psychology Today blog But for those of you who do not see the connection, I will review the idea in light of narcissism.
Reviewing Ranking and Linking
Like other social animals, we constantly rank ourselves among others—comparing, competing, or after enough of that, just “knowing our place,” so that it rarely comes up. If you bring a treat to a group of horses, dogs, monkeys, or giraffes—any social animal living in a group–you will immediately know who the alpha is. He or she gets the treat and the others back off. It can be more subtle among humans, but often not much. In any group, we know everyone else’s rank in the social hierarchy, while trying to maintain or maybe raise our own. (What you rank others on depends on you and the particular group—it could be kindness, popularity, income, social skills, etc., not just tennis playing or Scrabble scores.)
Ranking is automatic and very useful. Imagine every day having to figure out at work who’s best at each job, including President. When ranking is settled and clear it saves energy, outright fighting, and the resulting wounds, of all types. Of course, it can be fun to compete and even more fun to win. The trouble with ranking is being challenged, and at some point we all experience defeat. That’s why we mostly like rankings to be stable.
Just as often, however, we are engaging in our other social instinct, linking. Social animals have friends, too. If you watch them in groups, there are certain specific ones they hang around. In humans, linking means liking or loving certain others, so that we want to be near them, get to know them, and meet their needs if we can. Obviously linking brings far more comfort and pleasure, and although I have no data on it, in general HSPs especially seem to prefer to link.
What Goes Wrong?
The reason I wrote The Undervalued Self was that I realized as a therapist that although patients came in wanting closeness, connection, and to feel loved, they tended to think in terms of ranking, especially that they are not as good as others, do not deserve respect or caring, and then in our relationship, cannot believe I really like them. They feel I am too superior to them to actually care for them.
When someone suffers chronically from low self-esteem and depression, it is almost always due to having an insecure adult attachment style, learned in infancy. As children the love they received was inconsistent and contingent on certain behaviors, so they always had to be on guard to keep their caregivers loving them. As adults they can (but do not always) become vulnerable narcissists, focused solely on how they are being seen by others.
There is another insecure attachment style, being avoidantly insecure. These people learned as children to act like they do not care how the caregiver (usually neglectful or abusive) treated them. As adults they are the same way, determined not to care. It’s easy to do if you feel superior to everyone. These people can become grandiose narcissists, switching to the vulnerable type when they are unable to maintain enough admirers.
You can easily see how either type of insecure child can learn to see the social world only in terms of ranking. Anxious insecurity keeps the child one-down. The caregiver has all the power to bestow love or walk away. The avoidant type tries to be one-up by acting indifferent, by seeming to possess all the power to stay or leave. But beneath the bravado there is an even deeper insecurity.
All of this insecurity occurs in a family when there is not enough linking going on. Some ranking is always there. Caregivers always have more power—hopefully it is what I call power in the service of love, wanting the other to grow into equality, and the child senses the love behind the boundaries or even criticism. Indeed, sensing no boundaries can make a child anxious. But some families are nothing but ranking. And constant praise for achievements is of course another way of saying, “your high rank in the world is all that matters to me.” It is certainly the source of grandiose narcissism in many people.
What about those with a secure adult attachment style? It means you are confident that most people will like you and you will like most people—that linking prevails in this world.
A preoccupation with ranking is not always from childhood. Blows to one’s ego happen in adulthood too, again involving ranking, and can also cause low self-esteem, as when someone chooses to end a relationship with you or your business fails. But these are not usually as persistent as the effect of always experiencing ranking at home. It’s persistent ranking at home and at school, with little or no linking, that can lead to an obsession with ranking in adulthood—that is, to both kinds of narcissism.
Can Narcissism Be Innate?
The research on narcissism does find a small genetic component. Psychopathy, which is generally innate, is involves an intense focus on ranking—that is, it is an extreme case of narcissism. For instance, rhesus monkeys, similar genetically to humans, can inherit an innate trait of heightened ranking behavior and aggressiveness. Males with the trait are often ostracized and generally do not live long. The trait endures because females inheriting the trait are dominant in the female group and so their offspring have all the resources they need, and some will have inherited the trait and pass it on.
What about vulnerable narcissism being innate? I doubt there is a gene pattern directly causing it, but it might develop in someone who inherits any characteristic that made them feel that others saw them as inferior (for example, a learning disability or being very short), so they grow up feeling constantly low in rank for that reason. But environment is also always a factor (in that case, parents and teachers might keep the child from feeling inferior). That is, look into the family life of a narcissist, whether grandiose or vulnerable, and you can usually see how they became obsessed with rank.
I think you can understand how all of this applies to HSPs. We are not innately narcissistic, and I think very few of us become vulnerable narcissists in the sense of losing all track of others’ needs and being callous or calculating. But we are strongly affected by our childhood environment through our innate “differential susceptibility.” If we are insecurely attached, we are likely to just try constantly to please others. True, in this case we could miss the cues of what others really need. Skilled linking requires knowing the other person, not just projecting onto them that they will like us if we try hard enough. But all of this hardly amounts to an “overlap” between HS and vulnerable narcissism.
A Word About Grandiose Narcissism
About grandiose narcissism, I believe this sometimes is not due to childhood environment but created by acquiring a very high rank and influence over others as an adult. That is, having too much power. There is considerable research on how people, given power, will start to use it for their own advantage. Having power for long, they get used to having their own way. To most people in power, it feels good. That is, they are changed by having power and become more narcissistic. (For a review of some of this work, see Keltner, D., Gruenfeld, D. H., & Anderson, C. (2003). Power, approach, and inhibition. Psychological Review, 110(2), 265.) This applies to almost anyone, for example research participants randomly assigned a role of power over others in an experiment. When taken to an extreme, we see political figures and spiritual leaders, to take two prime examples, sometimes horribly misusing their power financially or sexually. Very often they never would have thought of it until the door was left wide open and they just walked through it. But that is another subject.
Mostly I just wanted to take this opportunity to remind you to try looking at the world, including narcissism, through this lens of ranking and linking. Even though most of the world’s problems are caused by ranking on a massive scale, very often some genuine linking, just a hug and some sympathy, works wonders. Love helps.
Thank you for this post. When reading about vulnerable narcissism, it strikes me that for people who research it, any insecurity one may have almost takes a somber tone and raises suspicion as an indicator of potential narcissism. HSPs being more affected by negative early environments, it’s not uncommon for many of us to struggle in adulthood. This may mean being distracted, worried, self-conscious, etc. This can also sometimes be frustrating for other people, for example if they’re trying to communicate something to us and we’re too overstimulated to process it. But to me, that is a very far cry from narcissism and as you say, of the HSPs I know and have met, very few struck me as narcissists. Usually, I think we care very much. If we also add differential susceptibility and the fact that HSPs flourish even more than the norm in good enough early environments, and have the potential to heal even more in therapy, it really seems like vulnerable narcissism and sensitivity are two different things.
Thinking of the problem, I think much of it has to do with language and labels. We can’t know what happens in people’s heads, so when they seem preoccupied, that’s often construed as narcissism (i.e., they’re not attending to me, they only care about their own mind). But there’s a difference between being self-preoccupied and self-absorbed or selfish. Many people are self-preoccupied, but not even a bit selfish. It may sometimes look like the same from the outside, but I think intent matters a lot here. However, as people tend to judge others more objectively (by what they see) and themselves more subjectively (by their intents), rather than the other way around, this is lost on many people. And many HSPs (who are really simply chronically overstimulated) end up internalizing this message and believing that they are in fact selfish or narcissistic, adding to their distress and wreaking havoc on their self-image.
Ultimately though, I think most HSPs care. I do agree we prefer linking. I personally inspire myself from the figure of Horatio, in Hamlet. He’s the only character with no official title at court. He’s part of no intrigue. He doesn’t compete for any rank. He doesn’t handle immense responsibility, achieve dazzling feats, or seek to impress. He’s not a tragic figure, or a hero. He’s just a good friend to Hamlet, a sounding board, and a caring person. He’s there to connect us with all that is good and wholesome, to keep us sane, and act as a balm for the heart. I think this is what HSPs do so well. The world is so often insane, hurtful, aggressive, sometimes in brutal ways, but often also more subtly (which we also perceive). When we get the opportunity to flourish in all of that, we’re perhaps the best positioned to connect people with what is beautiful in them, with the humane element in them. We do so with our empathy, our depth and ability to notice subtleties. When we are disturbed or distressed, these qualities may not come through as well to others, but they are there, under all the noise, and I believe we all have the power to cultivate them.
Thank you so much for such wonderful words and insight. I enjoyed your understanding of the subject immensely. I feel so peaceful after reading this piece of writing. It’s opened up something I couldn’t put my finger on in my own community as I realise I’ve been struggling with the concept of ranking, but linking I like the sound of as it’s a personal journey to friendship and connection and not forced in any way whatsoever.
A very heartfelt thank you
Well said.
“But there’s a difference between being self-preoccupied and self-absorbed or selfish. Many people are self-preoccupied, but not even a bit selfish. It may sometimes look like the same from the outside, but I think intent matters a lot here.”
I absolutely agree, what a wonderful addition to the original post. I appreciate it so much.
I often find myself saying some of the phrases mentioned in the original post, and I started to worry: am I a vulnerable narcissist?
Then I thought what do I always say to myself as I’m saying things like “I wish I could do that” or “I hope they like it/me” … I’m always having an internal dialogue with myself that says: “Are you making it too much about you?” And that gives me a sense that it’s often a case of feeling excited or overwhelmed by a situation and wanting to do the best to compliment or help someone else. My personal intent is always to be aware of sounding selfish or too braggy.
I wonder here, now, if I sound selfish using a personal example but I hope it helps, or seems relatable nonetheless.
I think just the fact that you have to ask yourself if you’re being too selfish would mean that you are more empathic and definitely not narcissistic because no narcissist is going to ask himself if he’s being selfish or not. It doesn’t even occur to him or her. If you have to ask yourself are you making it too much about you, and I will say that you definitely or not any type of narcissist vulnerable or other. Hope that helps.
Beautifully put.
To the both of you, these pieces compliment each other very kindly. I just wanted to add, that in the beauty of what is, HSPs do for others at an effortless- maybe even, eager way, for those around us… I know for myself, when things become chaotic for me, I tend to find that that’s when… there is a sense of “narcissistic,” tendency as in “I’m not good enough/undeserving, or what about me-“ mentality begins to wash over my self esteem. I find that in all the good I really believe I do for others (and I never ask for anything in return, let alone do I expect anything but)- it’s then I find the longing for that, “link” so to speak, and there’s no one ever THERE for the HSP. At least in my experiences thus far… I’ll listen and support and encourage, and when I’m going through something, I don’t even want to share my worries w others… because when I do, I feel like all I’m doing is complaining. That’s what I feel, because it’s never ever understood by those I tell, and they look at me w such… unappealing disinterest at times too- as if they’re not flawed, seeking help in some way. I feel that in my times of need, people are quick to dismiss, and disregard my concerns as if they really aren’t- well, a concern. I suppose it’s from their lack of understanding in the depths we experience things… but I just love how you put this, because I do in fact relate… I just feel that the light on the HSPs “suspected narcissism,” could be the result that comes from this- an amount of non-reciprocated quality investments one puts into others, and their lack in receiving the same patient understanding and care, they give out…
Just my personal experience, and maybe a thought as to why it may appear so… “self absorbed,” it’s just that we want to believe we deserve the same amount of care… yet tend to have a hard time getting it back, at times, it seems. From an already overwhelming and depressive place, the lack of support and understanding, makes one feel more alone and “undeserving,” which then causes that “overly invested sense of self-doubt.” Simply because we begin to wonder how come it’s all it ever is (for some, that is, at least).
I’m still learning a lot of myself, and have a hard time differentiating this very topic myself, of myself, right now- but I appreciate the insights and knowledge shared here.
You both are Beautiful minded people. Thanks for taking the time-
I once told my therapist, who boggled when I mentioned it to her, that I sometimes consider myself a “reverse narcissist”. I had a very vexed childhood but I am highly HSP and high IQ (which overlaps in terms of sensitivity) but I told her that because of my perfectionism I had this tendency to think of myself as being required to be perfect when others are not.
I called that reverse narcissism. Of course, it is not true narcissism, it is more that everything that a narcissist is we have in reverse–like a negative and contrast with the actual photograph.
Narcissistic I am it. Highly sensitive I am. But that perfectionistic tendency combined with my ghastly childhood have caused me to have ridiculous expectations of myself (While having no such expect ) which is what I called “reverse narcissism”.
I don’t know if this is true of anyone else but I felt that it was undoubtedly true of me. I’ve been working on that perfectionism for decades but it’s still there working around every corner.
I see that your response here is from October 2023, I do hope you get to read my response to you.
THANK YOU! I really needed to hear, (read), what you said. I have never had a stranger explain me, my life, so completely. Thank you.
Hi everyone,
I was going back through this post and saw the replies to my comment. I wanted to say thank you. It is frequent for me to wonder how I can bring some peace or be of help, and it touched me very much to see the replies my words got, and that people would take the time to let me know they have appreciated them. Here’s wishing the best for everyone going forward. Also, to Dawn and Mason specifically: I can relate to many of your questions, and assure you they did not come across as self-absorbed, but as entirely natural.
This is a gorgeous statement! It healed me a bit to read this. It truly seems like everything one does nowadays can be misconstrued as narcissism or some other form of mental illness. No one is allowed to simply be human anymore. Your reply gives me so much hope and peace. I completely agree with you – vulnerable narcissism and sensitivity are separate.
“I believe narcissism is basically a problem of being obsessed by ranking.”
Narcissism is a form of infantile behavior… as in that state of being that infants have. Infants believe (as much as they can be aware) that they are the center of everything (along with fundamental awareness of necessity of ‘Mother’). Babies want and demand attention – at all hours of the day and night as any parent can attest. Their world is very small and fully contained in the portion of the crib or room they happen to occupy. Babies want everything their own way and they do not tolerate well ‘other ideas’. In short, Babies are the center of the Universe and they like and demand things that way.
Narcissism in juveniles and adults fully mirrors infantile narcissism. Such persons become adults believing that they are the center of everything. They also want and demand attention at all hours of the day and night. Their world is also very small – in short, My Way or the Highway With You. Adult narcissists want everything their own way and they do not tolerate other persons ideas or needs. They are badly lacking in sympathy and empathy. Adult narcissists fully believe and act as if They are the
center of the Universe and they demand of YOU that you see things that way.
As any HSP can tell you… being around a narcissist is one of the worst places we can be. As HSPs we need certain space and understanding… which narcissists are incapable of offering. The harsh and selfish attitudes of narcissists grates on our sense of being and fair play and on our compassion. Narcissists demand our attention when we are together and they have no concern about us at all. They try to force their needs upon us while not extending that back to us in any way or form.
There can be various reasons why someone is a narcissist from either natural (biological or genes) or nurture (environment) sources. But the results are the same – a juvenile, demanding person who makes everything about themselves.
Some narcissists are in fact covering a deep feeling of inadequacy from which they seek relief. But many are just unpleasant people who are actually feeling quite happy with themselves. They think they are ‘perfect’ in many cases and so they feel no need to change or do any self-examination.
As I said earlier, there really is not a lot of overlap between narcissists and HSPs. It is almost two opposing poles on a spectrum.
And the best place for an HSP person to be is as far away from a narcissist as possible. Narcissists could learn a great deal from an HSP person – if they ever could develop such an ability.
Ich sehe Säuglinge, als Wesen, die das was sie beschrieben haben tun müssen. Sie sind unmissverständlich auf Hilfe angewiesen. Sie können nicht selber essen, sie können sich nicht um sich kümmern. Deshalb brauchen Sie jede Aufmerksamkeit, um zu zeigen: ich will überleben, also musst du/ihr (Eltern) mir helfen. Säuglinge können nicht sprechen und damit äussern, was sie gerade brauchen.
Vielleicht fokussiert sich der Narzissmus der Erwachsenen auch auf diese Zeit der Säuglings- und Kleinkindsphase. Umso weniger die Gefühle und die Bedürfnisse von Eltern gesehen werden umso mehr müssen Säuglinge und Kleinkinder kämpfen und entwickeln dadurch ein starkes: “sehtmich und was ich brauche!!!”
Ein Säugling kann seine Umwelt noch nicht trennen. Er beobachtet alles genau was passiert. “Natürlicher” Kleinkind-Narzismus tritt meist später auf, dann wenn das Kind seine Umwelt durch erlerntes Verhalten kontrolliert und noch nicht versteht, dass die Anderen auch Bedürfnisse haben. Durch Kontrolle entsteht Macht. Manche Chefs sind in dieser Phase wohl stecken geblieben. ;-)
Zum Ranking: Dominanz gibt Sicherheit, da man dadurch seine Umwelt kontrolliert, letztlich entsteht dadurch aber Angst und Einsamkeit. Eine andere Strategie ist Anpassung durch Konformität oder Herdenbewußtsein. Das sind aber alles Scheinsicherheiten.
Der Dominante fällt um, wenn er die Situation nicht mehr kontrollieren kann, dann kommt eine ganz blasse Seite zum Vorschein und der Angepasste fühlt sich plötzlich verärgert und unsicher.
In beiden Fällen gibt es einen Machtmisbrauch: einmal ein ständiges Überbewerten der eigenen Macht und gleichzeitig eine geschwächte Eigenmacht/Kompetenz. Das sind 2 Seiten einer Medaille. Und die Vetreter beider Kategorien finden sich und spiegeln sich genau das. Das geht natürlich nur wenn die Kultur das zulässt. Das ist jedoch oft der Fall, daher gibt es immer noch diese Rollenspiele. Leider ist Seximus oft ein Symptom in dieser Kultur.
Bei narzistischen Menschen gibt es meist viele Fälle von Traumata in der Kindheit, die wiederum durch einen Machtmisbrauch der Eltern entstanden sind oder aber das Kind spiegelt die narzistische Bezugsperson und überidentifiziert sich.
Das sind jedenfalls meine Beobachtungen. Ich hoffe, ich konnte ein bisschen was beitragen. Danke fürs Lesen.
Dominance does provide ‘security’ of a sort… but often just for the Dominant Person. The person being dominated loses their sense of power and security. However, in weaker persons they probably feel some sense of security because being dominated is what they have become accustomed themselves to. They think they find security in allowing power to others over themselves.
But this creates a sense of separation between the parties because they are not operating from a sense of equality of power. Thus, they cannot have a true and healthy relationship due to this imbalance of sense of personhood. And persons of HSP Nature are not likely to be dominant types but would tend to being more passive in any contact with a dominant person. And that is usually not good for the HSP Person.
Sexism is a sad fact of life in our World Culture. And the fact is that sexism can work both ways. While it is often the man who seeks domination over women… there is a solid percentage of women who are narcissistic and who seek power and control in all their relationships including those with men.
As we know… true and real relationships between men and women need to be based on mutual caring, respect, and trust. There can be an imbalance of power more to one or the other. But the fact of having a loving and healthy overall relationship should balance out issues between them as issues come along.
In any case… with our HSP Nature we always need to be in relationships of all kinds that respect our special nature and allow for it.
Found this incredibly valuable, even down to how to react given this new knowledge— “Love helps.” Explains a LOT about family and friends I’ve had the pleasure of learning life lessons from. Many, many thanks.
Mi muy querida Elaine, me encanta compartir contigo las experiencias de vida. Tu trabajo y compromiso con personas PAS me trae mucha tranquilidad. Rechacé definitivamente toda relación tóxica y esto me volvió muy solitaria. Las personas narcisistas básicamente no soportan ser menos, creo que es algo de nacimiento y se refuerza en la crianza por sentirse menos, abandonados, etc. Las personas PAS tenemos comprensión de las situaciones, nos creemos “salvadores” queremos ayudar quizás hasta dejándonos a nosotros mismos de lado. Creo que por una cuestión de supervivencia queremos que todos estén bien, prosperen, disfruten, etc Como rasgo principal es rumiar intensamente (el narcisista no le importa nada ni siente, puede actuar pero le cae la máscara enseguida), las personas PAS somos amorosas, sentimos amor, nos emocionamos, nos gusta el arte, crear, los desafíos, nos abrumamos si, las malas calificaciones de otros nos hace cuestionarnos, no queremos preocupar a las otras personas, somos intensos. Las personas narcisistas tienden a ser destructivas, no soportan la alegría de otros, quieren llamar la atención, tienen tan baja autoestima que una mala calificación los destruye e intentan destruir a quien se atreve a descalificarlos, buscan que pueden obtener. Las personas PAS cuando nos descalifican nos quedamos rumiando para saber el porqué, por altruismo, por reglas claras, por querer cuidar y proteger, no actuamos, respetamos con total compromiso con relaciones sanas. Detestamos las mentiras, el doble mensaje, la manipulación, no comprendemos para que decir algo que no se quiere decir. Los narcisistas son destructivos. Las personas PAS si cometemos error nos sentimos muy arrepentidos y no nos gustan los conflictos por muy sensitivos, nos gusta compartir, nunca competir. Los narcisistas jamás piensan lo que los otros sienten, no pueden, no les importa, son destructivos, malos, competitivos. (disculpas por el traductor)
Thank you for this thoughtful and well written article. I am an HSP with a lot of traumas throughout my life. I grew up in multiple dysfunctional families. My husband grew up with two very dysfunctional parents and narcissism on both sides. He is grandiose. I am diligent about holding myself accountable to owning my awareness and development. I recognize I have narcissistic traits and I continue to study and make every effort to identify my truth and how to develop accordingly. I greatly appreciate intelligent literature that helps me personally and relationally.
Continúo mi comentario anterior, si todos tenemos algo de narcisismo, que podemos llamarlo necesidad de aprobación está todo bien. El psicópata narcisista a medida que va envejeciendo pierde poder, poder de atracción a sus víctimas, ya no puede reclutar personas que lo ayudan con sus víctimas, va perdiendo poder de controlar, eso lo hace vulnerable pero nunca deja de ser narcisista. Sabe como robar, manipular, mentir, crear redes para poder destruir su víctima, acorralarla, cuando su víctima perdió todo o lo descarta, su vulnerabilidad es encontrar otra víctima. Nunca es tristeza por desapego, solo es necesidad de destruir. El psicópata narcisista no soporta la alegría, la vida, la creatividad, viven en estado permanente de competencia, destrucción, son depredadores profesionales, aunque muchos se muestren como “introvertidos”, se muestran públicamente como perfectos, amigables, seductores. Necesitan si ó si una víctima para destruir. Su vulnerabilidad surge por la falta de victimas por la gran información que hoy existe. El psicópata narcisista seguramente fue criado ó relacionado, empoderado por núcleo narcisista ó criado por personas vulnerables, madres “sirvientas”. Las personas con rasgo PAS no soportaría ni un instante en un núcleo así. Tarde o temprano cortan vínculos tóxicos con narcisos si dan con terapias de apoyo. El narciso es incurable. Las personas PAS son amorosas, comprensivas, como dice Elaine es rasgo nunca patología.
Thank you for the post and for the comments – that of “Roundball Shaman” was particularly notable.
I have a sibling whom I describe in one way as “68 going on 18.” Was recently with her around the passing of our mother and she made it much more difficult and disturbing than it inherently is.
Entirely arbitrary to boot.
I think, that narccistic behaviour also is very linking to other person. But this linking is for use person as resource or supply object. And they can let other to use them. What is difficult for them, to be with someone for someone else’s sake.
¡Feliz Cumpleaños Elaine!
(Ref. al narcisismo hay dos personas que desarrollan el tema maravillosamente, Alina Blazquez, canal youtube Terapia Grupal y Tabatha Lepe canal youtube “Identifica un Narcisista” y por otro lado, Omar Rueda desarrolla rasgo PAS)
Your insights and blog posts are the most valuable and interesting information to me online. Thank you for sharing and being an inspiration to so many!
Being an HSP (and a clinical mental health counselor) who is married to a vulnerable narcissist, there are some seriously dividing qualities. For one, vulnerable narcissists are empathy deficient, whereas HSPs typically have this in abundance. Also, narcissists are self-focused but HSPs are conscientious of others. Vulnerable narcissists resist intimate relationships, while HSP’s deeply long for this. Most importantly, vulnerable narcissism is wrought from negative, often traumatic familial histories, but HSP is innate. HSPs give, narcissists take. I admit, this idea is probably more disturbing to HSPs who live with vulnerable narcissists because we know first hand how difficult and hurtful these individuals can be, especially to those who feel emotional pain perhaps a little more deeply than others. If there is ANY connection between HSP and vulnerable narcissism, it is the natural ability HSPs have to see and meet the needs of others and the vulnerable narcissist’s desire to have their own needs met incessantly.
Te falto agregar muchas cosas porque los psicópatas narcisistas tienen muchísimos condimentos a veces difíciles de ver, se hacen los vulnerables para poder depredar a largo plazo. Son malignos, destruyen. Probablemente tu marido sea simplemente alguien egoísta. Los PN roban, mienten, manipulan, enrollan a las víctimas en infinidad de problemas, es otra cosa. Nada que ver un PN nunca vulnerable y una persona PAS.
I am just discovering tonight that there is a name for my condition. I bought your book and hope it will help me become less of who I am inclined to be.
I’m a little concerned about your comment, Eric. Which condition are you saying that you have, HSP (which is a trait, not a condition) or vulnerable narcissism? Only with one of those would you want to become less of who you are inclined to be.
Another way to view Narcissism is in terms of being an addict, the Narcissist is addicted to social supply and is willing to use any predatory behavior possible to get their fix. Coupled with a highly rigid personality style and poor ability to deal with reality they have very little hope nor drive for change.
Me parece muy interesante y productivo a nivel personal y es otra manera sutil de enfoque en la vida cotidiana de las personas altamente sensitivas.Mi hija nació en 1992 y me llama la atención que sus estudios comenzaron en 1991.Fue una etapa muy dura y difícil,porque a mí hija la encasillaban siempre y la mantenían en un rincón de la clase.Trabaje duro con ella,en todos los sentidos y siempre me mantuve cariñosa y reflexiva en todo,dándole explicaciones ante el comportamiento de profesores y niños,que juzgaban las madres.Doy gracias a Dios por el apoyo de personas que llegaron a mí vida.Mi ex marido no fue apoyo,en esa época de nuestras vidas y decidí trabajar e investigar por mi cuenta.Hoyben día mí hija es muy intuitiva y enseguida distingue a los niños y niñas altamente sensitivos.Agradezco de corazón que podamos ayudar y colaborar con estos humanos que son estraordinaros para la época que viene y que toca analizar desde el corazón.Gracias.
When I came across the term sensitive narcissism by accident – I was scared for myself. I literally panicked that that’s what I was (and this took place at a difficult time in my life when I left my partner and felt remorseful that I was this bad person who was hurting people). Because I never thought of my sensitivity in the context of narcissism, but as a positive trait that involves empathy and caring for another person. And even though I’ve been told since I was a child that I’m oversensitive, “You’re overreacting” I cried a lot (And I still do), I have low self-esteem which I’m trying to correct in therapy, I felt there was something wrong with me and I wanted to change it. And I see a lot of what is wrong with me, my mistakes and the wounds I inflicted on people and I feel bad about it.
And really for six months now I’m still thinking about it and despite having a lot of sensitivity and a lot of traits in common with HSPs, I can’t say about myself that I’m an HSP because they’re inherently good people. I ruminate constantly.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Dear Elizabeth,
Narcissism is concerned with itself in order to gain an advantage.
For you, dealing with yourself is more determined by external influences.
You worry because you hurt other people.
Of course it affects you too, but you suffer from it and question yourself.
Would a narcissist do that?
Certain behaviors arise out of necessity and are more due to the situation and self-care.
Maybe you have certain traumas that affect you, but I don’t really see you as a narcissist.
Best regards
I think there is room for work on the subject of traumatized HSP’s versus vulnerable narcissists, is there a difference? What is the difference? How does a person know which they are? And most importantly, what do you do about it?
I would think, though, that HSPs, even when severely scarred, are capable of putting the self reference down sometimes, whereas the vulnerable narcissist isn’t. Even in something as simple as this: Can you watch a movie in which something is happening to one of the characters that is deeply painful, and have your empathy kick in, and cry for them, without at some point realizing you’re actually crying for yourself, to the extent that the character itself, or if it’s a documentary (even worse, because then it’s real), the person fades and becomes irrelevant? You might on some level relate their story to something that you have been through, but does that happen to the extent that the person you’re watching vanishes except as an object representation of your pain? I’m saying “you/your,” but I don’t necessarily mean it in the personal sense. It’s something that any of us could look at if we’re worried about it. I don’t mean it to be conclusive, but it seems like it would be very informative in this regard.
But I’m not an expert or a professional in this area, just an intuitive, informed amateur.
I always look forward to what “goodies” Elaine may have in store for the HSP community through this blog. But at times I wish research-laden topics that indulge in minute points or differentiations be tabled or presented to the academic community in favor of more practical essays. And I’m analytical by nature, so this is saying a lot.
In the groundbreaking book, “The Highly Sensitive Person, ” Elaine draws a curious conclusion about HSPs and consumer debt, namely, how they suffer more when in debt. Now this is one such practical topic I’d like to hear about, not something over-specialized like, “The infant mortality rate among breech HSP babies denied a natural birth, who were left alone often in a crib with insufferably scratchy sheets against the backdrop of loud music from a nearby stereo system.”
I always look forward to what “goodies” Elaine may have in store for the HSP community through this blog. But at times I wish research-laden topics that indulge in minute points or differentiations be tabled or presented to the academic community in favor of more practical essays. And I’m analytical by nature, so this is saying a lot.
In the groundbreaking book, “The Highly Sensitive Person, ” Elaine draws a curious conclusion about HSPs and consumer debt. How they suffer more when in debt. Now this is one such practical topic I’d like to hear about, not something over-specialized like, “The infant mortality rate among breech HSP babies denied a natural birth, who were left alone often in a crib with insufferably scratchy sheets against the backdrop of loud music from a nearby stereo system.”
There needs to be research done on the, unfortunate, link between highly sensitive people (hsp) and cluster B personality disorder.
That cluster B personality disorder people will target highly sensitive people as prey. Easy prey.
I should know……
I’m 60 years old and in my life I have encountered, at least, six cluster B personality people.
And damn near all of them have caused damage in my life, in some way shape and form.
That highly sensitive people are the filet mignon to cluster B personality people.
Cluster B personality disorder people gain their greatest pleasure and satisfaction in targeting HSP’s
How to detect and protect yourself from them.
And to detect all the various ways they will manipulate and dominate and insult and degrade and humiliate highly sensitive people?
The two main damages in my life have been people who are racist and people who are psychopaths.
Yes!!
As a researcher and clinician who has studied the HSP trait, it makes me angry/sad/concerned to see this trait compared to narcissism, and I wonder about the possible harm done to HSP’s who are already conscientious, and who have been on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse. The HSP’s I have worked with, though certainly not perfect, are very gentle in nature, and don’t consider themselves better or more deserving than others.
Of course, self awareness is key, and we all have what could be considered as “shadow traits” that deserve our awareness and efforts towards growth. However, as Elaine mentioned, Jouk et al omitted empathy (and I believed conscientiousness) from their work, which are important traits when considering the HSP. I also think it’s important to distinguish the HSP’s sensitivity from the hypersensitivity of someone who is entitled and easily offended, vs someone who is hyper responsive to environmental stimuli. One takes responsibility and the other may not. For instance, and HSP might feel overstimulated in a grocery store with a long line, but he/she would not likely demand that the cashier hurry up or try to butt in line – whereas someone high in narcissism just might.
In conclusion, I have seen it mentioned that people signaling high sensitivity but exhibiting narcissism has become an issue due to online self-education. To address this issue is of importance so we can understand “what is what,” and distinguish high sensitivity from things like high reactivity, mood lability, and excessive self-importance.
Struggling to see where the authors of the study thought it would do more good than harm! Yikes!!!!
I love that this article touched on vulnerable narcissism but I think it is an area to steer clear from unless the person is willing to do a ton of research on narcissism and truly understand it. Narcissism is so insidious, takes so many forms that any blanket approach to helping people understand it can do serious harm, especially to HSP’s. I am an HSP and I just got out of a three year relationship to a vulnerable narcissist. I should say that he is undiagnosed because most professionals only rank for NPD which is the highest level of narcissim. But as Dr. Ramani has learned, there are many “levels” of narcissisms that would not result in an NPD diagnosis but are still narcissism and still harmful.
The biggest difference between people with narcissism disorders and everyone else is the lack of empathy, manipulative tendencies, gasllighting, and being chameleons. I think to focus on “ranking” is entirely too distanced and much too incomplete to be helpful.
Narcissists are drawn to HSP’s and we can easily be destroyed by them due to our empathy and vulnerability to being gaslighted. After all, most of us have been gaslighted most of our lives about our sensitivity. Further, people with narcissism disorders survive by being entirely separated from their emotions – the exact opposite of HSP’s. In the case of my former partner, he liked to live at the speed of sound and I was expected to keep up. My efforts to make time for myself to maintain my sanity and health were seen as rejection and lack of commitment. When I tried to keep up, I began to become ill, constantly. Already sensitive and desirous of doing a “good job,” of being there for my partner, of being fair, of being kind, the constant criticism of the narcissist was as almost everyone who has been with one has found, completely destructive.
If we are going to get into the topic of HSP and Narcissism, please cover it more comprehensively.
Thank you, Dr. Aron, for this illuminating perspective on high sensitivity and vulnerable narcissism. Your framework of ranking versus linking provides such clarity for understanding these traits. The way you explain how secure attachment fosters linking over ranking brings valuable clarity to the HSP community.